Online Stock Trading Made Easy - Lazy Trader...Crazy Returns

Hi, 
I don't know from where to start...ok..let me start by saying a BIG thanks to Sriganeshh, yesterday he asked me how I calculate SAR for my trades.You can check the comment section here,for details of conversation.

He also asked me what is my success rato in SAR.I had no clue about that,so after a reply to his question,I thought let me go back and check the performance of SAR.Although I am confident of system and returns but checking the actual performance revealed some interesting facts

I checked the returns of bank nifty in specific, as I track it very often and it compliments my trading style
You can do it by going to Indian market calls label and check the past performance.

I found out that the system has been long since 09 February 2010 from the level of 8421
Bank nifty closed at 9180 and made a high of 9230 on 12 March 2010 (last trading day)
So total return comes to around 800 points approximately 8.5 percent 
But since we buy futures of bank nifty the returns goes up significantly.Lot size is 50 and approximate margin requirement is around Rs 50000 and gain is 800*50=Rs 40000 that comes to 80 percent returns 
So its 80 percent returns in a month, in one trade and the trade is still not closed.Considering these facts I feel these are excellent returns

Now we should just not look at facts and get too excited about the returns.We should try to read between the lines and find out the real reasons for this kind of performance.

Some important details about the system's  characteristics which I mentioned in yesterday's post

Since this is a trend following system and uses trailing stops(SAR)...you will see it does well in trending markets (will perform better for bank nifty than nifty....and will perform better in case of icicibank than reliance)
It will have the disadvantage of trailing stops which is you will always enter away from market tops and bottoms...thus giving back your accumulated profits...and also have advantage of trailing stops...will let profits run to maximum limit,and will not take you out when oscillators scream "OVERBOUGHT"
What ever system you choose it will favor certain market conditions and perform badly in other conditions

With that knowledge my task becomes easy...I am on look out for stock about to breakout in trend...or simply trade in trending stock and ignore sideways markets and stocks(FMCG and Pharma)

After this trade's analysis I truly understand the following quote.

"The reason is that a man may see straight and clearly and yet become impatient or doubtful when the market takes its time about doing as he figured it must do. That is why so many men in Wall Street, who are not at all in the sucker class, not even in the third grade, nevertheless lose money. The market does not beat them. They beat themselves, because though they have brains they cannot sit tight."
                                                                                                                        - Jesse Livermore

So "sitting tight" is what I take away from this trade,although I did not trade in Bank nifty this time,but it still gives me important insights into my trading system...and more importantly my own psychology

Wishing you good luck and hope everyone has a nice weekend
Cheers

20 comments:

  1. anuj,

    thanks...good writeup.
    but are you sure that the lot size 50 requires margin of only rs.50000...bank nifty i believe one lot requires margin of rs.10000...
    and the point value is only rs.10 i believe or am i missing something here..
    kindly explain yaar...kuch samaj me nahi aata hai
    sri

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  2. Hi Sri
    Yes these are margin requirement of http://www.icicidirect.com/,which is 11 percent now...other brokers may be charging even less,But to manage your position obviously you need back up funds as brokers change margin requirement as per market condition....or may be their own condition!!!
    As lot size is 50 so point values comes to same 50...point value is always equal to lot size
    hope that helps
    cheers

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  3. anuj,

    gone through margin requirement..u r right.
    the lot size is 50 and the point is 50 so 800 points @ 50 gives 40000..

    sri

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  4. anuj,
    have u got amibroker configured..if not give me ur mail id...will send u how to configure amibroker data setup file
    sri

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  5. no I have left it ...I got frustated...mail id is anujjoshi.aj at gmails dot com (check profile as well it mentioned there
    AJ

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  6. anuj,
    ok,,,sending the file..check.
    dont give up man...cheers
    sri

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  7. I have got so used excel trading and www.quote.com/ along with Indiabulls charts that I dont feel the need of software...and after seeing the returns above..I get second thoughts about day trading , whether its that good idea to spend hour in front of screen
    Day trading requires maximum amount of preparation of trading plan (some people will be surprised with this statement).
    Nevertheless if you have good daytrading skill your entries and exits will be perfect not random...so it should be learned...and using software help you in over all research
    Cheers

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  8. anuj,

    file sent..check ur mailbox
    once u finish historical data...let me know..
    u can setup linking quote tracker to get realtime data for ur observation
    sri

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  9. anuj,
    i do agree..i never do trading at all..it will be surprise to u.
    what i use software and all other techniques for finetuning my investment pickups with a holding period horizon of minimum 3 plus years..
    if u want to really wealthy, go buffet way...it is a easy statement....but do research...u will tell it is very difficult to do so...
    so far my belief is trading is zero sum game..but after visiting ilango's blog...slowly belief system is changing and in that game, one need not be loser...if he is wise enough to know what he is doing...
    may be very soon, will jump to trading ring ...
    cheers
    sri

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  10. I Just checked the mail..I dont feel the need of historical data,I want intraday data of past 5-6 days and get daily data back fill,I can get dow charts intraday but nifty and stock charts dont come up,Can you tell how to back fill...like if the is power failure or net disconnection,how to get data in that case...unless that is fixed no use in amibroker charts...back fill is most important for me ...
    Do you use Amibroker?

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  11. anuj,
    i use amibroker only for eod analysis but it is configured with quote tracker to get intraday data on realtime basis.
    let me first understand ur reqmt clearly..do u want intraday data on realtime basis or only for analysis at the eod...
    1. if if it is first choice, then u have to link with quote tracker and both the softwares have to run equally during market time to get the data...otherwise, it is of no use.
    2. if ur choice is second, then www.livenifty.com provides at the eod, 1 minute data on all stocks and futures which can be downloaded for ur analysis..
    somehow i feel after going through your comments, amibroker is not suitable software and quotetracker on standalone basis is sufficient for u which does the function of backfilling automatically...
    sri

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  12. Sri
    Trading is a zero sum game (I have never understood this statement) .At any point there is a buyer and a seller...but in the market as new people enter they generally tend to be on the losing side and their loss is often transfered to professional trader's profit...brokers also gain from both the parties as volumes in market increases...every body cant be winning here...In the same way every body cant lose here..even if you trade by coin toss method you will win some day...with experience you move to the group of successful traders and start to get a feel of trading...and that takes years and effort...be it the buffet or day trader way
    Its a completely wrong belief that long term investing is profitable,and in day trading you lose money...check this will give you some important insights

    http://in.quote.com/us/stocks/chart.action?s=C&chartUi.period=M&chartUi.bardensity=HIGH&chartUi.bartype=CANDLE&chartUi.size=650x450&chartUi.minutes=

    Citigroup monthly chart

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  13. anuj,

    i used the word research before buffet way...do really some research on psychology part..u will decode the secrets..dont go by books or others sources..
    i never said long term investing is profitable and in day trading u lose money...i said so far i am a long term investor and never tried day trading due to my belief that it is a zerosum game..
    we will discuss when we meet sometime in person..if chance comes...otherwise for u to ponder..
    "my Rs.1500 (5 shares@Rs.300) investment in LT in 2000 is how much worth now...calculate with all this years of dividend, issue of ultratech shares, bonus issue...u calculate the returns...i am comfortable so far...
    sri

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  14. Sri
    see I dont need eod charts I am happy with Icharts and quote.com...and as a swing trader and my analysis what happened months ago is useless for me...I am a short term trader with heavy volumes...I need 1 mins chart of last 5 days to be precise(minimum requirement)...That I get by getting Intraday chats of last 5-6 days.If i get more data in organised way...it will bring new perspectives to my trading ,so I dont mind that.
    AJ

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  15. anuj,

    then go for data downloading from www.livenifty.com but the server is down for the last two days...so u have to wait.

    sri

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  16. I have dont a whole lot of research on every aspect ...and psychology is my favorite.There are certain basic principles for trading that applied to whether you day trade or invest(I call it long term trading...trading with 1,2,10 or till death year horizon)
    Timing the market is most important thing ...and is also the most difficult thing...that it makes all the difference.
    Read how to make money in stocks - william o'niel you will love it...my favorite book...it is about how to pick multi baggers...very practical approach highlighted in the book

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  17. Coming to L&T...even my friend tells me the same story (and reliance and bhel as well in his portfolio...with similar stories )and I got influenced by that and entered the market in 2008...same friend bought Punjlloyd close to market top says it's "mini L&T"...after the crash he is asking me what is short selling in futures and how it is done!!!

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  18. exactly anuj...its all about timing...when the share price bottoms out, no body touches that...but i go after careful analysis, if it is worth, buy it and hold it...recently in 2009 june or july dont remember exactly when i bought at levels of 900 to 1000 and holding the same with my old holdings...but stopped it once it crossed Rs.1000 duas beyond that the real valuation not justifies the price...though offlate i intend to redo it because of various other news flying around.
    let us discuss this whole investment issues someother time either in person or over phone as both of us may learn new things...
    have a nice sunday and delhi, u can have good time..visit karol bagh to have good masala dosha in chennai restaurant or have some fun at hauzkauz village exhibition...if u r not married, u will enjoy the colour and fun ...

    sri

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  19. Ha ha..Thanks for lovely ideas for weekend...but I have got do some boring stuff to do...I need to remove one inch of dust cover on top of my monitor (that should tell how lazy I am!!
    Have a nice sunday ...enjoy
    :))

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